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Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:21 am
by Commando
Unfortunately, that's one of the problems you're always going to run into if you want a gaming laptop. No reasonably priced computer can be expected to keep up with new games for more than 2-3 years.

With a desktop that's not a major setback as you can upgrade bits and pieces to keep it going. My CPU and motherboard are around 4 years old now and in desperate need of replacement, but because I've been able to replace my RAM, hard drive, graphics card, case and monitor I can struggle along for a little while longer and even play games like Crysis without it looking like complete crap. If I was still running the exact same spec I was running 4 years ago I wouldn't have a hope of even playing WotLK at a respectable framerate (not that I can anyway in Dalaran, meh).

But with a laptop, upgrading piece by piece isn't an option. You might be able to get more RAM, maybe even swap out the hard drive, but you're not going to be able to replace the screen, graphics card, motherboard or processor (or at least it's very unlikely you'll be able to do so). When it's time to upgrade you need to replace the whole thing, and that gets pretty expensive.

That's the price you pay for portability, though. Desktops are much cheaper to keep up-to-date, but carrying them around is a bitch. Laptops are expensive, but you can carry them around in a bag over your shoulder without having to do weight-training beforehand.

As far as always getting the latest and greatest goes, unless you want to pay a massive premium you're never going to get the best of the best. I'm waiting for i7 because I reckon I can struggle along until it comes down in price. If you can do the same then I'd suggest you do so, because i7 is a big step up in performance compared to Core 2 Duo (just as Core Duo was a big step up from P4). Unfortunately it's also a big step up in price at the moment as well. Whether or not it's worth the cost right now is up to you.

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:42 am
by tomas
Commando wrote:I'm waiting for i7 because I reckon I can struggle along until it comes down in price. If you can do the same then I'd suggest you do so, because i7 is a big step up in performance compared to Core 2 Duo (just as Core Duo was a big step up from P4).
If I was getting a laptop today, I'd probably be looking at :

Intel® Core™ 2 Quad processor Q9300 (2.5GHz, 1333MHz, 6Mb Cache)
2 x Nvidia GeForce Go 9800M GTS 512Mb DDR3
Hi-res 17" WUXGA X-Glass (1920x1200)
4GB DDR2 800Mhz
250GB 7200rpm SATA HDD
8x +/- Dual Layer DVD Writer
Windows Vista Home Premium

Which comes in at around £2000. While it looks like I could pick up a PC that is better (from reading this thread, but I can't say for sure it is better) for half that Price. When I've saved the cash something like that might be closer to £1500 or even £1000, but by then I might be able to pick up a better PC for £500.

I'm quite happy to spend a bit more for the portability of a Laptop. Even since I came to your house and spent a large amount of time twiddling my thumbs because I didn't have a computer. Theres very little chance of being able to bring a computer on the train and I don't drive.

While it's only maybe a max of 10 times a year, I'd prefer the option of going to those sorts of things, I might not be tempted to go to say a party at someones house if everyone is bringing computers and I can't, although I know a fair few people do.

Now, even looking at those prices, I'm not overly bothered, but I'd like to know like:
Laptop £2000, will be able to play new games for 3 years
PC £1000, will be able to play new games for 5 years.

In that respect the Laptop looks like an extremely poor choice. If they're both 3 years, its not a bigger difference.

I'm currently looking at 4 options
1) Stick with Laptops, I enjoyed i34, and I enjoyed Heugess's party, and ones at Ians. I need a laptop for that.
2) Save cash by sticking with PCs. While this is the cheapest options, it doesn't allow me much flexability.
3) Look at some sort of saving plan, where every 4 years I get a new PC, and every 4 years a new Laptop. So, there will be a 2 year period where I'm primary using the Laptop, and 2 years where i'm using the PC, but the Laptop should be able to keep up in those 2 years for parties. (4 years is just a number, could easily be 6)
4) Stick with PCs, but also get lower, cheaper spec Laptops as and when needed. Main troubles with this is that i'll mostly be getting Laptops exclusivly for parties, but they'll cost me less, and it worries me slightly when someone says "Want to play CoD4?" and it not running on the lower spec laptop.

While obviously all those plans can be open to change, and I might have made up my mind by the time i've saved the money, it still worries me slightly.

I'm currently saving up for a Holiday in September, and for the Laptop (all in 1 account), so i'll see whats left after the Holiday and work from there. So we're talking at least September for me to upgrade, but more likely next year unless my current Laptop fails badly (it's broke at the moment, but i've got 2 months left on the warrenty, so it could break whenever when I get it back...)

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:46 am
by Juan
Guess whos new machine arrived at 8:30 this morning? :D :D :D :D

One thing I discovered about Dell... Ask and ye shall receive.

"Can you lower that price for me? I'm seen one around £xxx, and will walk away if it's not around that number."

I ordered mine after the voucher had expired, and those exact words were what I used. :)


PS. Installing terrain.mpq...

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:04 pm
by Roper
Gratz Juan! :D

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:12 pm
by Commando
tomas wrote:Now, even looking at those prices, I'm not overly bothered, but I'd like to know like:
Laptop £2000, will be able to play new games for 3 years
PC £1000, will be able to play new games for 5 years.

In that respect the Laptop looks like an extremely poor choice. If they're both 3 years, its not a bigger difference.
The desktop won't be able to play new games for longer on the original spec than the laptop will. You'll pay more for a laptop that's the same spec, yes, but if you get a desktop and a laptop that are similar in spec then both will last the same amount of time.

The difference is simply that the desktop can be upgraded and the laptop can't, but upgrading still costs money. Think of the laptop as a big lump sum every 3 years, while the desktop is smaller lump sums but more frequently. Yes, in total the laptop still costs a lot more, but the extra money is for the portability which is very important if you don't drive (and incredibly useful even if you do - it's a lot of hassle to pack up a desktop even if you do have your own car).

I wouldn't advise getting both a desktop and a laptop. It's just not economical to keep two bits of gaming kit when you're only going to be using one. You'd be better off spending that extra money on upgrading your laptop more frequently than getting a desktop as well, in my opinion. Quite apart from the hassle of having to install all your games twice, configure all your settings and addons twice, keep both computers up to date with patches, etc.

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:46 pm
by ash
Some of the desktop for 5 years thing is half true.

I bought my pc about halfway through uni (6 years ago), and am only just about to replace it. I have bought additional parts for it since then, maybe totalling £400 over the past 2/3 years (this is £150 more than usual, mainly because I had a graphics card die on me). This is in addition to the 450->500 I spent originally.

I have just spent £700 on the i7 pc that heeuge said "I would have bought this..."

I can't see myself replacing much in that for a while. Probably the only two bits (as usual) which need adding on, are RAM, and graphics. But for at least 3 years I'm fine with it. These are also easy to replace in a desktop.

I rarely spend more than £150 on a graphics card and never more than £75 on RAM (Hey it used to be expensive!)

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:46 pm
by Heeuge
ash wrote:I have just spent £700 on the i7 pc that heeuge said "I would have bought this..."
The power of suggestion :twisted:


An excellent choice sir.... Time for a sexy party!

Image

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:32 pm
by ash
only thing I hope is that I don't have any hardware problems with it. At least if you buy the parts yourself RMA is simple. Via a vendor, I dread to think the timeline on repairs :\

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:01 pm
by Roper
ash wrote:only thing I hope is that I don't have any hardware problems with it. At least if you buy the parts yourself RMA is simple. Via a vendor, I dread to think the timeline on repairs :\
Or the fun with the India call centre! :)

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:46 pm
by ash
thanks.

really.

:|

probably just fix it myself if it came down to it

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:58 pm
by Commando
Soldering Iron + Vodka = Win

(N.B: Your value of Win may vary)

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:32 pm
by Heeuge
ash wrote:I rarely spend more than £150 on a graphics card
After getting the 8800GTX for £150 a while back I figured it might last me a while. The 'newest' game I've been playing lately is left4dead and after cranking all the visuals up to max before the first play it didn't even occur to me that performance might not be good enough. My CPU is more than 2 years old now but not once have I noticed anything less than 60fps in L4D.

If my system had been a laptop I'd have been stuck with what I had when I bought the CPU (in this case a 6200 :lol: ) - without the ability to upgrade I'd have got frustated enough to replace it a long time ago!

Finding a relatively affordable quad-core powered laptop is pretty difficult, even now. HP make an HDX X18-1100 but for your £1500 you only get an nVidia 9600M gpu. Hardly this generation, let alone next! Dell's own gaming options don't include quad-core, while their alienware gaming brand offers a Q9100 at a minimum of £1900. Rock's cheapest Quad-core is £2000+.


By the time you've saved up the chances are that mobile quad cores might well be a lot cheaper / more mainstream. Let's hope so!

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:07 pm
by Greentitch
Heeuge wrote:
ash wrote:I rarely spend more than £150 on a graphics card
After getting the 8800GTX for £150 a while back I figured it might last me a while. The 'newest' game I've been playing lately is left4dead and after cranking all the visuals up to max before the first play it didn't even occur to me that performance might not be good enough. My CPU is more than 2 years old now but not once have I noticed anything less than 60fps in L4D.
I always make sure that I buy decent graphics cards when the time comes around. A lower range model won't run current games well, but one of the higher end ones will last for years. Looking at a shiny new 9800 GT at the moment for no good reason as all I ever seem to play is WoW :P I just got GTA IV though and it annoys me that it refuses to let me set the texture quality above Low...

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:03 pm
by Roper
I usually end up spending about £300 and then keeping it a few years, but by that time it’s starting to struggle. I guess I may be better of spending about £150 and then £150 again 18 months later, maybe..

Re: Heeuge! build me a pc! / performance woes

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:16 pm
by ash
The beast is alive!

/tests